Reguarding this article on the wiki : utaite.wikia.com/wiki/Utaite_Wiki:Reprinting_Guide_&_Tips
I feel that this article should be reworded to be a tutorial on how to download video's, not reprint them. Reprinting is wrong and I don't think the wiki should be condoning this.
I have noticed that the amount of singers who have started to make youtube channels or put in their video descriptions that they do not want their work reposted has been increasing and this is because they have started to aknowledge the problem that people are reposting their work without permission.The reason not all utaite's put "please do not reprint my videos" in their video descriptions is because they assume their fans will have the common curtesy to not repost work that does not belong to them. Just because a user does not say on their profile that they do not want their work reposted does mean that you have permission to repost it.
If the reprinter has gotten permission to post the work, then that is a different story, though since most fans might not think "I should as permission first" because maybe the do not speak Japanese and do not know how to communicate with the singer to get permission I do not think the wiki should be encouraging fans to steal their favorite singers videos.
You are not showing support to your favorite singers by listening to their reprints on youtube. You show support by them by watching the original NND video or watching the video on that singers official youtube channel.
I think that this page is outdated and should be reworded.
No offense, but I still partially disagree with your response.
Despite the fact that not everyone on this thread agreeded that the page should be deleated, we all did mutally agree that the page has outdated information and could be updated.
Candiifaec has even went ahead themselves and has added more information to the page prior to your response ( hopefully this link works: http://utaite.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:27762#31 , http://utaite.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:27762#35 I'm including both links because feel as if they kind of relate to eachother.)
Although we all have different opinions on the topic of reprints, we all seemed to have agreeded that there are more things that could be included onto the page to encourage more positive reprinting and make it better. so because of this, I don't think that having no more futher changes to the page would be a good idea because if there are more information that could be included it should be allowed to be there.
I believe I had said this already, but the admins are not ignoring this. They stated in the admin chat that they agreed the page can be updated. However, as I stated (though nobody seemed to notice), they don't just have the time to drop everything to edit pages when they're outdated. They have heeded that request, but haven't had the chance to do it yet. Which is why I decided to edit a bit as a placeholder to calm people down, however you all still seem to be worked up. Please be patient.
Sure if you disagree then you disagree I don't find any offense in that :O
Honestly the fact that you think I didn't read the whole thread is kind of laughable. I saw Candii's changes and thought they were okay, that's why I said "at this point".
Also I did agree that the guide was outdated. I'm the Sen, Jun (Bluebird), mentioned lol. I've been keeping track of this thread since Jun showed it to me (which she also mentioned) back then. I've just been to busy to respond.
I don't blame you for not knowing that I'm Sen though.
Anyhow, I do admit my statement may have been a bit vague but I meant no big changes (like you guys keep wanting to do) like changing it into a download guide
If there are any small additions/modifications that need to be done then I'm not adverse to that but no one has presented any other specific things to my knowledge
@Sen Thank you for taking the time to give us your thoughts. It's much appreciated, especially since I know people get busy.
While I still am not convinced by your argument as I feel those are not strong enough points to refute my belief, we both remain the right to stick to our beliefs, especially in leading our own wikis. My main concern actually is that there are already so many reprints up from years of doing it and new utaite channels now post new content. I personally feel there aren't as many needs for reprinting anymore since there are so many already up, but if you feel it's beneficial to continue the reprints then you may incorporate that into your wiki. I do feel that the page should be updated to encourage more positive reprinting if you wish to continue with a reprinting guide, but I am not sure how. Other than that, I can't tell you how to run your wiki. Maybe someday I might feel otherwise about a reprinting guide for the wiki I lead, but as of right now I am against linking reprints. Although, I do have a response to some things.
First of all, we were only saying that with Meo's logic (that downloading guides are taboo for a wiki), the page would need to be deleted. We never acknowledged it as a rule, we were just responding to her claim. I'm confused on what other "download" you think Meo meant, so could you explain?
Second, reguarding this statement "Literally only you and Mizo in this thread think it should be removed. Everyone else doesn't have much of a problem with it." I was under the impression that BLUEBIRD (and not just me and Mizo) agreed that the downloading guide would be unneeded under such circumstances as well, as she said "I compleatly agree with you here and also kinda agree with @Tisris that the page should just be deleated, or atleast the tutorial on the bottom of the page at the very least since it is a violation." That makes a 3:2 ratio of those who participated in this thread who expressed positivity in deleting the page under Meo's assertion, thus why I said it seems most people have agreed. I don't know what BLUEBIRD may have said in the admin chat (potentially for or against the deletion), but I would not have said "most people seem to agree" had it only been me and Mizo. That would be out of place.
Third, I meant "unprofessional" in the first place, however she seemed confused by what I meant so I was attempting to find other words to describe it. I mistakenly neglected connotations and was only attempting to find another annotation that somewhat described "lacking qualification and professionalism" but I inevitably failed. I had no intention of causing such trouble over words and communication, I was just trying to help her understand what I meant, although I was in a hurry and didn't stop to deeply think about it. I was just looking for some way to somewhat illustrate the idea and that was the only word I could think of at the time. In hindsight, I should have used a thesaurus and I know those words aren't similar at all, which is rather regretable. I should have put more thought into it.
In summary, while I don't believe reprints are necessary anymore, I recognize many people find it beneficial to the wiki.
Indeed, we do agree that if we keep the guide, it should be updated.
I'm willing to help with that, but of course I'm not really an admin haha, so I think it would have to be looked over by Sen or Starikun as well. So it'll still take a bit of time.
After all, if it's something important you should consider the different factors rather than just write something on the spot, right?
Don't worry, we'll either update the guide or delete it. But please be patient until then. Afterwards feel free to give your input on changes made.
The wiki is a community. If you want to decide on what the new rules of the page should be then start a new thread so that we may all give our input on it. I do not think it would be fair to the wiki community if you just decide on them yourself.
As you have just said:
if it's something important you should consider the different factors rather than just write something on the spot
well if that is the case, since it is seen in this thread we all have many ideas, wouldn't the fair thing to do be to start a thread so that we may all give our input on it? This way all of the different factors may be taken into consideration, rather than just the ideas of one person.
I would like to give my input and help if I can (I even started this thread so that we may all discuss it) and I am sure there might be other contributors that would like to help as well. I do not think it is fair if you just get to decide on the new page rules all by yourself.
We should definitely create a new hilighted thread for all the utaite wiki users to discuss the new rules. Then perhaps someone could write a draft for admin approval and update the rules.
Don't worry, we'll either update the guide or delete it. But please be patient until then. Afterwards feel free to give your input on changes made.
Why would we give our input after the changes are made? The utaite wiki users are all supposed to collectively discuss them and then implement them, not put them in and have everyone discuss them afterwards.
"I do feel that the page should be updated to encourage more positive reprinting if you wish to continue with a reprinting guide, but I am not sure how."
"I compleatly agree with you here and also kinda agree with @Tisris that the page should just be deleated, or atleast the tutorial on the bottom of the page at the very least since it is a violation."
"The wiki is a community. If you want to decide on what the new rules of the page should be then start a new thread so that we may all give our input on it. I do not think it would be fair to the wiki community if you just decide on them yourself."
"Why would we give our input after the changes are made? The utaite wiki users are all supposed to collectively discuss them and then implement them, not put them in and have everyone discuss them afterwards."
What I really wanna say though: The rules have been updated already... I don't see why you're so insisting on carrying this thread any further, and insist on making it a downloading guide... Or do you? If you don't and just want to make it more "positive", then suggest, what you would want to write. But since you said "but I am not sure how" I don't suppose you do have any suggestions.
(edited so its easier to read -Sen)
Candiifaec has implied in the bottom of her response "Don't worry, we'll either update the guide or delete it. But please be patient until then. Afterwards feel free to give your input on changes made." That any further editing of the page would be discussed by only her and the admins, no one else included. I think thats why @Tisris mentioned that we should discuss before not after so that our opinions can be heard and inlcuded into the editing of the page.
Since you seem kinda seem interested if we have any suggestions, my ideas are :
In the introduction to reprinting and proper credit sections:
we should say something along the lines of,
"if a singer already has a youtube channel do not reprint their videos. Link videos to their own youtube channel instead"
since personally, I think it is a given that if a singer has a youtube channel already then you do not have permission to further upload their videos. Some singers do not always upload all of their songs to their youtube but if they decide not to put their cover on youtube along with nico nico douga then I think its implied that they do not want that cover on youtube, therefore you should not upload it either. ( I have seen this happen with Amatsuki a couple times and some other singers too)
I also noticed that the page kind of repeats itself in these sections too, It has a example of a description in the blue box and then a new section below it saying "Other helpful things to consider, though are not necessary, might be including the original description, or including the English song titles and utaite names.
this kinda contradicts itself too because with the blue box and the description with that it implies "Include this" and then below says "this is not necessary"
I think this should be reworded to that it is necessary to have this included in the description.
I would also like to include a little blurb under the important notice section in the paragraph about checking for "do not reprint" an example of what do not reprint might look like in Japanese text.
Of what I have seen it is usually along the lines of "※YouTube.他の動画サイトへの転載禁止"
It always has the "※" symbol in front of it and it is sometimes even highlighted in red so I think it would be good to include a thing saying "Please look out for these things while looking to see if they do not allow reprints"
I think we can also add in the information "Do not reprint messages are commonly included in the video description and/or a persons nico page description"
Sorry this will be a long awkward post as I'll be replying to the posts chronologically.
@TisRis (Long reply you gave earlier to me)
No problem. :>
Thanks for understanding :>
As for adding more things for encouraging more positive reprinting...if you don't know how, I surely don't know how to either and as it stands what's on the page seems enough for me.
Well by you guys claiming how that page was a "violation," it must mean that "something" was violated which in this case must imply rules.
Its hard to describe what "download" Meo meant and would honestly take some time to explicate and put into proper words but at the very least I can understand that it's not what you thought according to your reply to her.
Since this is not useful to the conversation I rather not spend time on this.
Well according to Jun, she didn't say that so uhh....anyhow Jun often plays Devil's advocate with me so I'm not too concerned if she disagrees with me.
Hmm from what I can tell:
Well if you were to include Stari she's on the Keep side but since we share accounts and thus opinions its more fair we count as one. So actually it seems the sides are pretty even :O
Alright. As long you understand that, that's good. (Hopefully this part doesn't come off as condescending O.O;; I have no intention of that tone at all)
Personally I feel that in some sense there's never a limit to what can be reprinted. Well I mean I do feel there should be a limit but at the same time you'll never know what song or whose's cover could make someone you interested and discover the fandom so I'm not opposed to new reprints. Everyone's tastes are different after all. Especially since Vocaloid and by extension Utaite is/are constantly evolving and producing new content.
Lol what do you exactly think we are doing right now then? Jun already answered this well so there's no need for me to comment any further.
@TisRis (reply to the second post)
What new rules do you exactly mean?... I can't seem to think of what should be added?
@Mizo (latest post)
Uh well its not like anyone had anything concrete to add to that page so what else could she say?
In that situation the only thing we could have done was add something and see what you guys thought, not that I would have done anything anyway since there was nothing, to my knowledge, to be added...I already stated that last time.
Okay wow it seems like we're finally getting somewhere now with your suggestions owo
If you haven't seen, the wiki already says to link to cover on their channel if they have one. We even have notices on their page too. I don't see any any reprint links in the songlist the for those pages but something could have gone under my radar.
If you're talking about reprints outside the wiki....You know its not our problem if people reprint those covers right...
We can encourage people not to do certain things and alert them of the utaite's preferences but that doesn't mean they'll actually listen.
Well there's no harm in adding that to the description since not everyone has the logic to not reprint them.
How I see it, is that one part is saying, "this is the reccommended description," while the other part is saying, "these things are optional."
But yeah I admit it may be confusing so I'll change it and make it more clear :O
Oh yes that would be useful! We should definitely add that!
Thanks for your input. It'll be very helpful ^^
I won't update it right now though since its kinda late where I am and I kinda want to sleep.
What do you think?