I am so done with this whole misunderstanding thing -_-
But thanks for all your ideas and changes! I'm honored to have spoken with the main utaite wiki admin.
This post has gotten kinda messy, so I am only going to explain this confusion on my part, then completely forget about the other irrelevant misunderstandings. Those take up too much energy and only lead to more confusion and unnecessary discussion.
We all need to put quotation marks around things we quote (we've been doing that since lol).
Now to the actual discussion.
I'm just agreeing with ideas that were pitched that sound good to me, whether they are in it already or not. I guess it's like "this is a good idea and let's keep it for sure and if it's not there already let's do it." I like Mizo's ideas of "if a singer already has a youtube channel do not reprint their videos. Link videos to their own youtube channel instead" and "[...]"do not reprint" an example[...]" I think I would like to put the "do not reprint" from Japanese to English translation in the odorite wiki guidelines as well just to at least post the translation somewhere. Although we still won't have a reprint guideline itself. Or does the utaite wiki have a "common NND description phrases" to translate common things that appear in descriptions? I think then it could also list the translation of "do not reprint" there if it does. This is a separate idea, but if you like it then we could discuss this in another post. It could include more things like the translation of "music credits" "lyrics" just for example.
We should definitely create a new hilighted thread for all the utaite wiki users to discuss the new rules. Then perhaps someone could write a draft for admin approval and update the rules.
Don't worry, we'll either update the guide or delete it. But please be patient until then. Afterwards feel free to give your input on changes made.
Why would we give our input after the changes are made? The utaite wiki users are all supposed to collectively discuss them and then implement them, not put them in and have everyone discuss them afterwards.
@Sen Thank you for taking the time to give us your thoughts. It's much appreciated, especially since I know people get busy.
While I still am not convinced by your argument as I feel those are not strong enough points to refute my belief, we both remain the right to stick to our beliefs, especially in leading our own wikis. My main concern actually is that there are already so many reprints up from years of doing it and new utaite channels now post new content. I personally feel there aren't as many needs for reprinting anymore since there are so many already up, but if you feel it's beneficial to continue the reprints then you may incorporate that into your wiki. I do feel that the page should be updated to encourage more positive reprinting if you wish to continue with a reprinting guide, but I am not sure how. Other than that, I can't tell you how to run your wiki. Maybe someday I might feel otherwise about a reprinting guide for the wiki I lead, but as of right now I am against linking reprints. Although, I do have a response to some things.
First of all, we were only saying that with Meo's logic (that downloading guides are taboo for a wiki), the page would need to be deleted. We never acknowledged it as a rule, we were just responding to her claim. I'm confused on what other "download" you think Meo meant, so could you explain?
Second, reguarding this statement "Literally only you and Mizo in this thread think it should be removed. Everyone else doesn't have much of a problem with it." I was under the impression that BLUEBIRD (and not just me and Mizo) agreed that the downloading guide would be unneeded under such circumstances as well, as she said "I compleatly agree with you here and also kinda agree with @Tisris that the page should just be deleated, or atleast the tutorial on the bottom of the page at the very least since it is a violation." That makes a 3:2 ratio of those who participated in this thread who expressed positivity in deleting the page under Meo's assertion, thus why I said it seems most people have agreed. I don't know what BLUEBIRD may have said in the admin chat (potentially for or against the deletion), but I would not have said "most people seem to agree" had it only been me and Mizo. That would be out of place.
Third, I meant "unprofessional" in the first place, however she seemed confused by what I meant so I was attempting to find other words to describe it. I mistakenly neglected connotations and was only attempting to find another annotation that somewhat described "lacking qualification and professionalism" but I inevitably failed. I had no intention of causing such trouble over words and communication, I was just trying to help her understand what I meant, although I was in a hurry and didn't stop to deeply think about it. I was just looking for some way to somewhat illustrate the idea and that was the only word I could think of at the time. In hindsight, I should have used a thesaurus and I know those words aren't similar at all, which is rather regretable. I should have put more thought into it.
In summary, while I don't believe reprints are necessary anymore, I recognize many people find it beneficial to the wiki.
It seems most people have agreed that the downloading guide is unnecessary and should be removed. There is a more detailed guide on how to properly link reprints to the wiki already, so the reprint guide would have redunant information once the downloading guide is taken away. If anything, the linking reprints guide may be adjusted to enlighted those seeking to reprint so that the guide tells how to properly reprint as well.
Mizomizore wrote: @bluebird as mentioned in earlier in the disussion the reprinting section, as in the "tools for reprinting" and "how to use nicofox" is technecly in violation and should be removed from the wiki.[...]
The confusion may have happened when you quoted her and forgot to put quotes, then she didn't recognize it as her own words. She agreed with what you were saying, not realizing it was a quote from her and thinking those words were your own stand on the matter. Otherwise, she initially said it for the summarized situation in my previous reply.
Reguarding the quoted statement by Mizo, Mizo was referencing the time Meo said it's taboo for a wiki/wikia to have a downloading guide. And probably also referencing the time you were quoting her without quotation marks and you were agreeing to what she said.
To clarify what Mizo was responding to:
Mizo proposed we change the reprinting guide to a downloading guide only. Then Meo3chan said that putting a downloading guide on the wiki was inappropriate and taboo for a data base such as a wiki or wikia. Mizo said that if that is the case, then the whole reprinting page is inviolation of the wiki rules that were stated by Meo, since most of it is a download guide. Mizo then said since it's a violation of the rules Meo asserted, the reprinting page in general should be deleted.
I mean we don't dislike Melochin, we just find him overhyped.
Guilty Hearts I'm pretty sure was only that popular bc it was literally the 5 most popular odorite who got together to make choreo for the most popular utaite's (root5) original songs. Since they've lost 2 members and the other 3 have become inactive as a group for over a year, I feel like they might have run their course.
I've found Tora-san and others quite popular among odottemita fans (esp who like to dance), but Melochin popular among people who like Japanese culture/anime/vocaloid in general who aren't familiar with the terms odottemita or utattemita. I suppose it depends on who you survey, since us the odorite wiki admins and active cotributors with accounts are fans of the lesser popular odorite while the anons are Melochin fans. Anons might not vote in a survey, so the results might be skewed.
ahahha Melochin, Miume, Ririri, or Aoi?
I see many benefits of a download guide. So Mizo's inital idea of changing it to a download guide only wasn't so bad after all?
I actually have my own download method to mirror odottemita videos
I've read it of course. I was asking because I wasn't sure if anything needed to be updated.
I'd also like to inform you that the linked example video was taken off youtube and should be replaced.
So this page on the linking reprints tutorial needs to be updated? http://utaite.wikia.com/wiki/Tutorial
"BUT the same reprints will still be there, when another young girl surfs the internet, and discovers the utaite fandom. And the might just as well migrate to nicovideo. "YouTube works as a gateway to NND culture only, not to support the entire utattemita fandom." Why would you want to rob someone of their gateway to a new fandom..."
That's exactly what I'm saying. There are plenty of reprints already on youtube which will serve as the gateway to the fandom. There isn't a need to continually upload new ones, so a reprint guide may be outdated. If there is a need to continually upload reprints, then the utaite with official youtube channels serve that purpose by uploading their own new content. If the fan wants more, then the fan will eventually migrate to NND. The main thing I was trying to say is that there isn't a need to continue reprinting anymore, since enough utaite have youtube channels to provide fresh content and expand the fandom.
And yes, all Mizo was trying to say is that the page is outdated. If it serves as a reprint qualification, it's already in the tutorial. If it serves as a downloading guide, then you guys seem to be against telling people how to download. I feel the page should be deleted, as the only important information is redundant.
Btw, I was speaking for many people about the views. We are mainly upset that no one asked first or even gave us a warning. We don't mind reprinting of our videos as long as people ask or at least warn us first, and usually we agree.
Yes the tone thing is big. I imagine most people will read internet debates with a negative tone, when in fact I was actually quite calm and acceptive of the other opinions when typing that. I just try to be as respectful as possible in hopes no one will read my messages in a rude tone in their head ^^;
I like the way you put things in bold you find important so I have started doing that as well c:
Ahh you're right! I wish producers and ensoushitemita would be on there as well D:
I was ok with it not being odorite related until I saw that vocaloid videos are on the form. Odorites are also featured on the vocaloid wiki in the cover section, so they seem to believe they have a place in the vocaloid fandom.
Also, I'm not sure which definition of words Meo3chan means, and she may not know the definition I mean, which was the language barrier I was talking about. Also connotations of words, such as "incompetent" connoting "stupid." I didn't think she was being rude, she just had a confusing argument. I recognize that no one has bad intentions. You don't have any, Meo doesn't have any, and I don't have any. We are only fighting to support our beliefs. As for fans, they don't mean any harm, but some things may inintentionally upset utaite who don't like reprints. Anyone can be considered unintentionally rude.
Also, as Mizo said, the whole point of the discussion here is not if reprints are okay and should be linked to the wiki, but that the Reprinting Guide may be outdated. It ended up inspiring a discussion on the ethics of reprinting instead. She encouraged a separate post about that.
I'd like to know how I spoke as if I was educating a child so I may fix it. I'm only trying to be clear about my views and explain what they mean. Again, I didn't mean to insult the wiki with the connotation of "incompetent." I honestly didn't realize the connotation at the time and was too focused on finding the annotation for "unprofessional" I meant to better explain it. I'm sorry for the trouble my wording has caused you and the utaite wiki. I don't have anything against the utaite wiki and its users. I was only trying to defend my own beliefs. I know all of you were as well. None of us mean any harm or rudeness.
I really admire you for supporting your wiki when you feel it's threatened. I'm very happy the utaite wiki has someone as passionate as you~
The meaning of incompetent I was using was "lacking qualification" because the reprints aren't official uploads so in my opinion they lack qualification to appear on a data base. I didn't mean the definition of "stupid." I didn't call the wiki stupid, I called reprints "unqualified." I'm sorry you and the wiki were insulted.
I feel like any internet debate is read with an angry tone in our heads by default XD
I never name called, and I only pointed out flaws in Meo3chan's argument aiming for her to fix those flaws to make her views stronger or clarify something that I didn't understand. It's how intelligent debates usually work. I just wanted to hear what she had to say, but her argument lacked consistency.
I suppose the only name calling was Meo3chan's comparison of my and Mizo's admin beliefs ruling the odorite wiki to a "fan club." But wikia in general is a fan based data base. Meo3chan at first said it was bad for an official sort of database to be like a fan club with my and Mizo's "fan club" attitudes ruling the wiki. She said we are more fan club like for supporting the artist instead of the fans' interest. Then I said we try to stay more professional by not linking to fan uploaded/fake videos just to appeal to fans because they are not official uploads. Just 2 different perspectives on linking reprints. I became confused when she contradicted herself and replied that wikia isn't professional and is run by fans, since she started off saying that Mizo and I were unprofessional to not link reprints on our wiki. A language error may have happened when she took the word "unprofessional" as "we are not properly executing our profession," which may have led to this whole confusion in the first place. Again, I mean "unprofessional" as "incompetent" since we are just passionate fans trying to expand our fandom.
There is a chance of language barrier, as Meo3chan stated on the odorite wiki that she is not very strong in English. I am happy she can convey her ideas in multiple languages. Unfortunately, while Meo3chan has intelligence in multiple languages, I am not as competent in other languages, so there is bound to be a clash of understanding when we don't intend it.